Dragon Dynasty, the Asian specialty imprint that hardcore kung fu aficionados can't decide if they want to kiss or kill, may be getting ready to drop one of the most popular movies in their vast catalog, Hard Boiled, on Blu-ray by Christmas. I don't yet have confirmation on this, however, if true, this could be an awesome way to end the year. DD released Hard Boiled on DVD a couple of years ago, and was simultaneously cheered by the casual Asian action fan and chastised by the hardcore film geek* contingent. The problem? Dubtitles. Much of our readership understands this phenomenon from years of importing and bootlegging hard to find Hong Kong action films, but for the rest of you, I'll give a brief description.
When a non-English language film is prepared for distribution in English speaking territories, often an English language dub is prepared to cater to a broader audience that might not want to read subtitles. This is an abhorrent practice to many film fans, but hey, if it gets more people watching better movies, it can't be all bad. The main problem is that often, for pacing reasons and simplicity's sake, the original dialogue is not directly translated and many of the nuances of the original script are lost for convenience's sake. Usually when it comes time to release that film on home video, the DVD publisher will furnish the dub as well as the original language track with subtitles following the original dialogue. However, in many cases the subtitles will follow the English language dub rather than the original dialogue; hence, dubtitles.
Dragon Dynasty's Hard Boiled was such a title. There has been considerable backlash among the film geek* community, and hopefully, if this title is indeed coming to Blu-ray in December, they will address the issue. The picture on the old disc was great and there were some pretty cool extras, but that one little thing sparked conniption fits across the country on internet forum after internet forum. Since the film geek community is their main demographic, and they hardest to please, let's hope Dragon Dynasty does us right this time around.
Then again, this may not happen.
My fingers are crossed, though! Roll on Hard Boiled Blu-ray!
Look for it sometime around December 14.
* Despite my earlier insistence that my language was not intended to offend, I managed to offend. So I softened the language a little bit. Many apologies to those who may have felt I was condescending or dismissive, no such insult was intended.
When a non-English language film is prepared for distribution in English speaking territories, often an English language dub is prepared to cater to a broader audience that might not want to read subtitles. This is an abhorrent practice to many film fans, but hey, if it gets more people watching better movies, it can't be all bad. The main problem is that often, for pacing reasons and simplicity's sake, the original dialogue is not directly translated and many of the nuances of the original script are lost for convenience's sake. Usually when it comes time to release that film on home video, the DVD publisher will furnish the dub as well as the original language track with subtitles following the original dialogue. However, in many cases the subtitles will follow the English language dub rather than the original dialogue; hence, dubtitles.
Dragon Dynasty's Hard Boiled was such a title. There has been considerable backlash among the film geek* community, and hopefully, if this title is indeed coming to Blu-ray in December, they will address the issue. The picture on the old disc was great and there were some pretty cool extras, but that one little thing sparked conniption fits across the country on internet forum after internet forum. Since the film geek community is their main demographic, and they hardest to please, let's hope Dragon Dynasty does us right this time around.
Then again, this may not happen.
My fingers are crossed, though! Roll on Hard Boiled Blu-ray!
Look for it sometime around December 14.
* Despite my earlier insistence that my language was not intended to offend, I managed to offend. So I softened the language a little bit. Many apologies to those who may have felt I was condescending or dismissive, no such insult was intended.
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This has nothing to do with being in the "nerd" community, is about demanding a fair product for our money. Considering the awful job DD is doing with their BR releases it's safe to say that HB will be another victim of the weinstein's hack machine. So no, there's no need to made up my mind here, until DD starts respecting their customers i'm not wasting my money on their sub-par products.
That "great" HARD BOILED DVD wasn't even the right shape - the picture was cropped and stretched out noticeably in addition to not being translated correctly. But other than it being incompetently made, it's awesome.
That sure was an awesome DVD, with the dubtitles and the cropped and stretched out picture. It was so awesome I don't particularly feel the need to hand the same assholes more money for a Blu-ray that's probably just another blurry PAL conversion. Really, I'm just waiting for that damn company to fold.
"Nerd Community"?
F++k you!
Wow, a reaction. I think that condemning Dragon Dynasty out of hand is a bit hasty. Their track record is certainly spotty, but they have done some really good releases. There is the possibility that they'll take the criticism's of the first DVD, which were plentiful, and adjust accordingly. Granted, they screwed up The Killer and 36th Chamber, but their Blu-ray releases since then have been mostly pretty decent. I, too, want them to do right by this movie, it is one of my all-time favorite movies. Hence the very last line in the article, which some will undoubtedly fail to read.
Well-written piece, Josh. Thanks for the info.
Yeah, DD is a weird company to follow - I mean, they release films I admire or have long wanted to see but in ways that tend to diminish the original work in some way. Case in point: Fist of Legend is my all-time favorite martial arts film* and the Blu Ray was a day 1 purchase for me. I'm not even sure where to begin with the poor quality on the release.
It seems like somewhere along the line their resources don't meet their passion for the genre or their understanding of what made a film work is out of sync with the audience, which is typically frustrating to mind-boggling. Still, like Josh asked, who would replace them if they didn't exist?
*You wanna make somethin' of it?!
Cine Asia have started releasing DD discs here in the UK, and so far I've had no problem with the quality of the discs. Invisible Target is a personal favourite. I just wish they wouldn't change the titles. What the hell does Kill Zone even MEAN?
Also, can you think of a specific example of Dragon Dynasty actually taking advantage of their extensive resources to do something to improve the release of a film in a way that a smaller company couldn't have done equally well if not even better? Because I can't.
They've occasionally used those resources for ill (I wonder how much that re-edit of TOM YUM GOONG cost) but never for good. Such awe-inspiring resources surely could have summoned up a 1080p24 transfer of 36TH CHAMBER OF SHAOLIN (such as the one on the French Blu-ray) as opposed to the 25fps to 30fps converted garbage they passed off onto us. At the very least you'd think they could tap those resources to get someone to retranslate the subtitles on these films. Surely that's not beyond their capabilities - smaller companies with no resources seem able to do it all the time.
Looking at the Hong Kong titles Discotek has released, I fail to see how their releases of titles like STORM RIDERS, TAXI HUNTER, and BURNING PARADISE are in a different niche from Dragon Dynasty's usual offerings. I mean, other than Discotek actually putting a decent amount of care and effort into their releases.
DD's products are hit or miss. U got great releases like SPL: Kill Zone and City of Violence. And then bad ones like The Enforcer and The Killer. Im just glad that theyve finally jumped on the HD bandwagon and the news of Hard Boiled coming to Blu is music to my ears. Lets just hope they do a good job with it.
I just wanna address the "cropping" "stretching" of DD's transfers, particularly Hard-Boiled. I sent Bey Logan a personal email many months (possibly years) ago about DD's transfers. I asked "HKL boasted on their front covers 'RESTORED & REMASTERED'. Did HKL actually do their own restorations? Does DD do their own restorations?" His response (I'm paraphrasing) "Yes, aside from the Fortune Star titles, HKL did all thier own restorations. DD has never done their own restorations." So in the end, Hard-Boiled's "cropped" "stretched" "dicked up" transfer was never their fault. It turns out the transfer found on DD's disc is the same one found on the R2 Scandinavian DVD that came out 1 year or so earlier. Ive seen the screencaps and sure enuff, theyre identical.
Sadly, this also explains why their formerly Miramax-owned titles like Fist of Legend, Fong Sai Yuk and Supercop remain cut. Rather than making an effort to track down and license fully uncut prints, they cut corners and resort to using preexisting masters they already own. Quite a shame. :(
Okay, this thread has reached its saturation point for me. Boring. I'll attempt to conclude by saying that I am cautiously optimistic.
I avoid this kind of shit by watching 99% of my foreign films via torrents. Bring on the hate, but I find even fan-subs are better than the white washed crap you get on a 30$ DVD.
This is a saner reaction. I agree with this. How you prefer to think of it, however, has not come across in the tone of your responses. Dragon Dynasty has put together a few decent releases, and in their earlier days, before Blu-ray, the percentage of good v. bad releases was much higher. I agree that they need could put more effort in, however, I have a problem with the sense of entitlement a lot of people have.
Oh, and they are releasing Robin-B-Hood (yes an unnecessary re-title) on Blu-ray in November. It being a contemporary release, it should be fine. It probably won't have the extended cut, but it should have the original HK theatrical cut.